Tuesday, 21 October 2008

The Atheist bus :

I found this while browsing another forum and i feel the need to comment on it.

Richard Dawkins publiclly endorse the Atheist Bus to the tune of 5,500 quid.

Big bloody deal.

I dont need to be cheered up by a fucking advertising slogan thanks.

I am already happy and i dont believe in organised religion and i dont live in fear so i am not going to donate to this.

I dont follow anyone not even Richard Dawkins.

Being an agnostic [while dismissing organised religion but acknowledging the metaphysical] is like being inbetween 2 warring factions.

The very first time i went into a church that i was forced to attend at school it felt alien to me and i instinctivlely knew that it was a lie.It felt alien to me and as soon as something has a religious tone then i automatically have an aversion to it.

Glad i am not from a religious family but my mum was commenting that i am like a christian without being a Christian or something like that.

I guess i just like a clean conscience but i have done some not so good things in my time of which i shall not speak.

Being a part of nature and consciously participating in it is the only religion i need.

I dont necessarily feel 100% human and never have and i dont need the support of a man made construct like religion to explain my existence thanks and never will.

Being connected to the flow of the universe as well.

I dont have a problem with Humanism but i do have a very big problem speciesism.

I cannot stand Speciesism and have no time for it.

This bus is advertising Atheism.

"stop worrying and enjoy your life "

"Phew well thats alright then after all !!! No more worries about eternal damnation from now on thanks to the positive message of the Atheist buses !!!...I am SO happy !!! ... Hi Ho Hi ho Its off to work i go tra la la la la... I love it !! Its brilliant !!! "

I think most people just like the irreverence of it.

I also have a little bit of problem with the school of Richard Dawkins.

The only problem i have with Richard Dawkins and the pseudo religion that he has created is that you cannot from a philosophical point of view claim that there is NO god.

"Probably no god "

If Richard Dawkins is saying that then the bus should be called the Agnostics bus NOT the Atheists bus.

The majority of the comments ignore or dismiss the "Probably" bit of the slogan and construe it as Atheism.

It seems like Richard Dawkins etc are admitting the possibilty that they dont really know for sure so they just say probably while the whole of their argument is against the idea of "God" in the context of organised religion

You can quite rightly say that there is a 99.9% probability against but you cannot deny the .1 % chance or possibility that there is a god.

That is the point of view of an agnostic and that is the only way to view the subject.

You cannot deny the .1 % chance that there might be as it is unknowable.

Plain and simple.

I am an agnostic not an Atheist.

to be an Atheist is to deny the possibility and that is NOT the point of view of an individual with an open mind.

My mind is open yet i have no time for organised religion which is a controlling mechanism.

I have my own spiritual beliefs that dont really fit into any belief system except maybe Paganism but i dont feel the need to worship anyone or anything.

I suppose i feel like i am a being that is deeply connected to the natural world and the cycles of nature.I feel at home in nature and i have some fairly wacky theories about reincarnation.I have certain reasons for saying this which are partly from experience and partly from the point of view of genetic memory which is just a theory.I am not going to divulge exactly what those beliefs are as they are deeply personal and i am not opening myself up to potential ridicule.All i can say is this reality is not all there is.

Thats what i think.

Never mind all that.

I can appreciate the atheists point of view but i dont get on that well with it because it is ultimatly Nihilistic.I live then die and thats it.I cant really follow that 100% because it doesnt fit my point of view completely and doesnt cover it adequatly simply because it refuses to acknowledge the 1 percent chance that this might not be all there is.

It just totally rules out all of the metaphysical because there is no scientific evidence for any of it and has or hasnt been explained by science or cant be.


Thats the nature of science.Its constantly evolving .

If mans understanding of reality and matter and all the rest of it was fully understood then science would be redundant.Not nearly enough is known about reality to be 100% certain that the metaphysical does not exist and i will argue that point and win with Richard Dawkins anytime if he chose to dogmatically dismiss it.

I have my reasons from personal experience to know not believe that there is more to reality than you take for granted.thats if personal experience counts for anything.

I would say it does count for something.

Hallucinating they will say and all the rest.

Heard it all before.

Hallucination means something generated within the brain rather than the brain perceiving something that is external although the latter is possible of course.In my case i am certain this wasnt the case.Its more a case of just having a wider perception of reality than most .There is not enough known about how the brain works to be 100% certain that all that you can see , touch and hear is all that is.


Personally i dont mind either way but to not have the open minded attitude that this may not be it is just silly and it becomes a religion in itself.

I know very well that there is no GOD in the typical sense.

I have no fear of consequence in the afterlife.

However i have my own code of conduct and there are things i will not do no matter what and just because Richard Dawkins says "dont worry , there is no god ,enjoy yourself " does not mean i am suddenly going to enjoy sleeping with a woman who is married for example or i am going to enjoy murder or i am going to enjoy whatever because of no consequence later.

I suppose knowing the difference between right and wrong and cause and effect should be enough to stop one from straying from the path.

The controlling mechanism is self imposed through free will and choice rather than from a bullshit religion.

I am responsible for myself and i make my own choices but choices and conduct are subject to the nature of the individual.My nature happens to be good which saves an awful lot of bother .

Saying "There is no god , dont worry , enjoy yourself " is a mixed message that isnt all good .I say this because of the enjoy yourself bit.

I am already enjoying myself and always have done.What does enjoy yourself mean exactly ?

Enjoy life ?

Great .

Enjoy yourself without consequence ?

Not so good unless you act responsibly towards others.

Humanism claims to offer a universal moral code of conduct but it doesnt touch on subjects close to my heart as well unfortunatly and views those things as being superfluous .

I would be an optimistic humanist but i am not hopelessly naive.

Human nature = Shit generally speaking.

I dont see Atheism being the solution to problems or the British Humanist Association having the answer because there are loads of people who are atheists already doing what they like and enjoying themselves and they dont give a shit about Humanism.

Just as many are religious and they do what they are told to do by the Koran for example so saying that Religion is the cause of the worlds problems or a large amount of them and thinking that if you remove religion from the equation and we all live happily ever after is hopelessly naive.

This is Richard Dawkins main angle.

He has just successfully identified and written about a problem and a symptom of human nature buy offering something else to believe in.the good thing about it though is it doesnt advocate killing in the name of etc like religion does.

But it wont stop the killing .

Its human nature.

Quote :

Fundraising Page Image
About the charity : British Humanist Association British Humanist Association
The British Humanist Association represents the interests of the large and growing population of ethically concerned but non-religious people in the UK Our Vision is a world without religious privilege or discrimination, where people are free to live good lives on the basis of reason, experience and shared human values.
Charity Registration No 285987

It aint going to happen.

I already live a good life on the basis of reason , experience and shared human values although i dont know many humans with my values.

I am free already.

Thinking is also an anathema to Atheists as well.

The agnostic is willing to acommodate both points of view even after they have dismissed the woolly thinking of organised religion.

The agnostic recognises those mechanisms as evil or in the case of christianity in its pure sense it isnt evil but has evolved into something that is or Paganism that in its pure form sees all life as sacred but it slowly became warped and sacrificed life in rituals etc.

Atheism and the church of richard Dawkins is really just another point of view that has a stronger argument than religion will ever have but its not enough on its own.not for myself anyway.

I dont have a need to believe in the metaphysical.

If it can be proved not to exist then fine.

I wont argue but i need evidence.

There is no evidence for or against so i rest my case and win .

Agnostics 1

Atheists 0

The debate is over unless there is compelling evidence for or against the metaphysical.

Does evidence for the Metaphysical have to be physical ?

Something that isnt physical in the normal sense cannot provide physical evidence.

I have astrally projected for example but i cant prove it .

All i have is my word.

Others who dismiss it and question either my word or my judgement insult my intelligence and my integrity.

I am in a losing situation but i dont have a right to be believed by everyone.They can believe what they like but i dont like my integrity being question if i give my word to be true.

Would Richard Dawkins take the metaphysical more seriously if he had himself experienced astral projection or something similar ?

Big subject but this ends before i get sucked into it even more.

Perhaps the unknowable cannot be explained by science.

Personally i think it can but not yet.

Physics will hopefully.

Atheism is an open ended argument that cant be won because it doesnt know.

If atheists become dogmatic then they lose the argument as well.

Atheism is a belief system based on science but its too polarised as everything usually is .

Richard Dawkins is on his own little pseudo religous crusade anyway and i cant stand hypocrites.

Buy my books

Buy my books

"I am right "

"You are wrong "

"I am right "

"You are wrong "

If there are open minded atheists then they are agnostics not atheists.

Pressure group Christian Voice sound like they are full of shit hypocrites.


  1. I think you are missing the point entirely! You claim:

    If there are open minded atheists then they are agnostics not atheists.

    I myself am an atheist, but am equally open minded! This means that as there is no current evidence for the existence of "God" i am not a believer. If anyone was to present evidence to me i would be more than happy to look at it with an open mind and change my view point. Does this make me an agnostic. Cerrtainly not! I personally believe that you are an agnostic, as all agnosrtics are, because you WANT to believe. If you thought about it deeply enough and were honest with yourself you would agree! As you say in your blog:
    live then die and thats it.I cant really follow that 100% because it doesnt fit my point of view completely

    You mention the .001% chance that there is a God. If you were to place a bet on a horse that had a .001% chance of winning would you back it?
    If you were to board a plane that had a 99.999% chance of crashing would you board it? I think not! You would- quite sensibly- step down and not fly until the probability of it landing safely increased significantly!

    You also say:

    and just because Richard Dawkins says "dont worry , there is no god ,enjoy yourself " does not mean i am suddenly going to enjoy sleeping with a woman who is married for example or i am going to enjoy murder or i am going to enjoy whatever because of no consequence later.

    This again is missing the point. The fact is (and as a teacher who teaches in a multi faith school, and as someone brought up as a roman catholic, i have first hand experience of this) that many people from all sorts of religions live in fear because of what there parents/ religion tells them. During october no muslim students had a music lesson for a month because of a religious festival which claimed it was wrong to listen to music during this time. As a result there education suffers and they do not enjoy themselves. Studnets claim not to be able to read extracts from Arthur Millars "The crucible" because they are terrified that it is about witchcraft and they will be "damned" for rerading it. And a sa result they refuse to recognise one of the finest american plays of the twentieth century and an allegory on the macarthy era in america which has just as much relevence in the post 9/11 era as it did in its day. AND ther eeducation and understanding of the world and humanity suffer as a result!
    Just because we do not live in fear of eternal damnation does not mean we should lose our consience!

    You also write:

    Richard Dawkins is on his own little pseudo religous crusade anyway and i cant stand hypocrites.

    Buy my books

    Buy my books

    "I am right "

    "You are wrong "

    "I am right "

    "You are wrong "

    This is also an untruth and proof enough that you have not read his works and know little about the man!

    The truth should be more like this:

    Buy my books

    "I am right because.. EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT CLAIM, followed by more evidence, followed by yet more evidence"

    "You are wrong because you have NO evidence"

    "I am right BECAUSE... EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT CLAIM, followed by more evidence, followed by yet more evidence"


    Its interseting that noone complains about religious messsges printed on walls and buses telling us God loves us and to REPENT, and yet all of a sudden people are up in arms about the point of view of someone who does NOT believe in God. What is everyone so afriad of? The people who are offended by this. THEY are the hypocrites!

  2. I dont disagree with ANY of what you say and i was arguing a tecnicality.A very small one but its still a tecnicality.

    I dont "Want" to believe in a God as i have said clearly enough already .I dont buy into religion as i have an aversion to it.

    I already said where i come from and thats Pantheism without the Paganism .

    If you are open minded then great and so am i.I just dont like the the way *some* atheists become dogmatic despite the fact that they have all the evidence against.

    Schools seem to have changed since mine which was C of E.prayers, hymns etc and half an hour of RE per week.I gather things have changed now after reading your comment but thats the climate we live in.

    Also i think indoctrinating children with Religion and fear which has profound effects on some is child abuse and should be outlawed.Leave religion out of it until they are over 16 or 18.